Where do we even start with this one, because for us as Commenters on naturism, bloggers on naturism, and as event organisers within naturism, we have had plenty of fights on our hands in order to achieve what we felt was simple equality.

Okay, the way we see it, and we have been engaged in a lot of conversations on this, either inside or outside of national bodies, we have always stated that there should not be any kind of segregation within naturism.

If we look to the textile world, because isn’t that what follow, just clothing free? We see there are no quotas placed on any private clubs or businesses, and so we have to ask, why does naturism feel the need to do so?

We have never met a single naturist that is not aware of the basic code of conduct, such as be respectful, and keep it utterly sex and sexual behaviour free. Now if that is the standard we all agree with, then why suddenly do we have segregation, such as Single Males, Age Groups, and Families? The simple truth is, you are either a true naturist, or you are a fake, in which case it will not be long before you get booted, the best example of that being ANW.

If you visit a golf club in the textile world, you will find that there is a rule book for all members and visitors, in truth, the same applies to naturism, so if you obey them, you stay, and if you break them you leave. Golf clubs and other types of clubs have no quotas, the only qualification is suitability, and payment, and we feel the same should apply to naturism.

Last year we worked as organisers, and that was our reasoning behind the way in which we offered places, which was, are you a naturist who enjoys social nudity…. Yes…. Welcome to the event. Now, we will not deny, we knew up front who was booked, so yes, we did a little checking as part of our safeguarding practice, and we did refuse places to a very small number based on previous behaviour. All events and clubs should have people who oversee safeguarding, so what is the problem?

Something we have talked about a great deal, is fearmongering, which we have stated has become very pervasive within naturism, it actually appears that scare tactics are used more within naturism than in the textile world, and yes, we have questioned the policies of a couple of national organisations, some businesses, and some clubs. We have been on the receiving end of flack because of it, but as yet, no one, be them a national organisation official or a club official has been able to adequately justify their position on their own rules. It is a subject we will not be dropping any time soon, because we actually think it is damaging naturism.

We have seen words like “Vigilantes” used to refer to possible protestors at family events. “Perverts” has been used to refer to men, and as we saw for ourselves with a group of YBN members, they used the term Dinosaurs to describe the older generations, of which one was Rob. This kind of language needs to be removed from naturism, because words do have an impact and power over people, and when used wrongly, they actually cause alarm to other naturists.

Another often overlooked aspect of this is club committees that have been highjacked by a certain demographic who cling on to power and become entrenched in their views, and when that happens clubs grind to a standstill and no longer evolve. These are people who implement rules such as we want quiet with no kids, and all men cannot be trusted. We recently became aware of one establishment that does not allow gay people to stand for the committee, and the biggest one we encountered is the “You must be fully nude at all times.”

Now we love naturism, but if it is cold, we put something on, under that assumption, we would be expelled from the club, and what about newbies? There are times where clothing optional is prudent, and yet, some places simply refuse to allow this, hence, some clubs are dying.

Earlier this year, a person reached out to us for guidance and advice, and asked if the team from last year would visit for a weekend to enter into talks and brain storming in order to help them attract new members. We were happy to do this, but the team is RnR, our daughter, a single guy, and a guy who lives with a none naturist. The rules were such that the none naturist was told, you have to be fully naked, so we lost a male team member and his partner. We were than told no single males, and potentially almost lost another member of our team, but we blagged a little and made out the older single guy was Rin’s dad, so they begrudgingly allowed him to come as part of the team. Think about that, they asked for help, then put in place rules to prevent us working as the skilled team we are, and they have no idea why their club is losing members. We have now decided to leave it, because the rule book at their establishment was not up for discussion, which means nothing will change, so rather than spend a lot of money driving to the other end of the country for pointless talks, we have pulled out on the weekend.

Fear and entrenchment are actually working against naturism, which is why we wanted to create events that removed all quotas on every level, because as we all know, Naturism is a natural equaliser, we are all equal once naked.

Diversity is becoming another hurdle, our national organisation has appointed an officer to ensure that all of those within the LGBT community are equally represented. We have an issue with this, and we have questioned as to whether there was a need for it? LGBT is technically a sexual preference, and so therefore irrelevant with naturism, your bed partner should not be a qualification for entry. We have no issue with anyone in the community, but their sexual status really does not apply, all that matters is are they naturists, and if they are, then they are welcome to join in. We do not understand this need for a representative set of quota’s related to attraction and sexual preference, it appears none sensical to us.

There has been a move towards women only, it has been noted there is a lack of women within naturism, one person we spoke to informed us that at his club it was around 60% men to 40% women. If you look at modern day statistics, that is actually better than most textile clubs, which have around 70/30 in most cases. Most women are also parents, so “Adult Only” actually prevents females with children from becoming involved in those events, it actually discriminates against mothers, how is that right or decent, and how does that benefit women?

There is a belief within naturism, that once naked we are in our natural state, the word nature is used a great deal within the lifestyle, and yet it appears that a natural mix of age’s, genders, and young children is unacceptable unless the numbers balance. There is no other conclusion to come to, other than this is a man made belief, as we are quite sure nature is not running around ticking off trees, wild flowers, and weeds, to ensure the planet has a natural balance of quotas, so why are we as naturists?

We are set against segregation of any kind, which is possibly why we were unwelcome in our national body, and are unpopular with some clubs, but again, to date no one has been able to apply any kind of reasoning apart from that is how it has always been, which actually is incorrect. Spiel Platz is one of the oldest clubs in UK. It began as a group a males who decided to build a club, and they loved it, but it never felt right. One sunny summer weekend they invited their wives and children to come and join them for a picnic at the newly built club, and as soon as the wives with their children arrived, stripped and settled in, everything felt perfect. Some of those men were single, so they invited friends, there were no quotas, just people who loved being naked, and it worked beautifully. Tradition states there should be no quotas, and we believe that is how naturism should be.

We are all innocent, until proven guilty, so if you want equality, strip, once naked, we are all equals, so stop the segregation.

This post was edited by Robin and Rin RnR at June 5, 2024 11:25 PM BST

Cheers RnR. The inability for women only events to consider that the vast majority of women (80% by 40 I believe) are mothers just beggars belief. Is there anything more strange in naturism that the belief that the best way to encourage women to become naturists  is to offer them women only events? I am not talking about small experiences offering a women only getaway, like BHH recently did for 16 women, after all this is the sort of thing that can be done as a group of friends and could also be booked as 8 couples, 4 families or 16 men. What I am thinking of is things like swims that should be open to all, and allow these women to bring their partners and children. 

Hey, lets not forget that more men introduce the partners to naturism than national bodies introduce women to naturism via these divisive events. I introduced Anna, Rob introduced Rin...Could it be that the women who think women only events are a good idea have maybe forgotten it was men and not women who introduced them to naturism? 

LGBT officers ensuring the LGBT community are equally represented? According to government statistics in 2022 (I believe - these figures are from memory from an article Anna and I researched so they are only approximate) 3% of the UK are LGBT, does this mean that naturist bodies will be looking towards a mirror representation? A club with 400 members can only allow 12 to be LGBT??? What about the fact that the majority of people in the UK live in family homes with children under 16? This 60% of the population is certainly not represented? What about the fact that over 80%  of women have long term male partners by the age of 30?  Are we to insist that we have a cross section of all religions and cultures in naturism too and ensure they are properly represented? Britain is a multi-cultural nation now but should we worry if enough Polish, Muslim or African people find their way to naturism? 

What we have to remember is that it is important to not be racist, agist, sexist, homophobic, or prejudice in anyway. As Rob says a person's sexuality is not real relevant in naturism, just as it isn't if people go to the cinema, join a brass band or shop in Sainsbury's. To refuse someone membership into naturism  because they have a different colour skin, a different sexuality or a different religion would be totally wrong, but to look to enhance naturism for them because of this is also equally wrong. Positive discrimination is becoming one of the most destructive aspects of modern society, and naturism should not need to get involved. As long as we ensure equality in treatment and respect that should be enough. Anyone from all over the world is welcome to join ANW, their colour, sexuality, age, race or religion is not important and does not change their ability to take part in the community and share in it and makes friends. Should a person wish to raise issues that are important to them, they can do that within the respect of the community and the opportunity of free speech. If they were to become too extreme and turn ANW into a soap box then we may ask them to consider the spectrum of the community and its actual purpose, naturism, but we certainly have no issue if people wish to talk about their sexuality, their colour or their religion, or disability matters or anything else. As long as they stay true to the nature of ANW and naturism. Just as Rob may talk about gardening and I may talk about films, or we both may talk about vegetarianism. We are a community and sharing is important, sharing naturism, but also sharing beyond, learning and appreciating, fun things and important things, being empathetic and considerate to all and giving everyone an equal voice and allowing a reality to also logically dictate the movement of the community. There are more men vocal here than women, but we are not going to tell the men to shut up and trawl the internet looking for women. When naturism does this it actually makes naturism look perverse. "Look we are a bunch of naked blokes and we want to see some naked women. Come and join us, and make our day!"  Recently a male naturist made an announcement on Facebook looking for a woman to share lodgings with him at a naturist club. No matter how innocent his intention may have been the message surely had no women responding. What woman in her right mind would spend a naked weekend in a cabin with a complete stranger from a post on social media? 

On a personal level if I was going to organise a trip abroad with 10 people as a father of a naturist family I would want to travel with two or three families with teens. I have to consider the fun element for my children. If I was travelling as a couple I would want to have at least a few of the 10 also being couples. But if I was travelling alone, I couldn't care less if they were all men, a mix of men and women or couples and families too. As long as people didn't completely ignore me or I had nothing in common with them. But If I was going to a large event then I would want  it to be as diverse as possible, but not in a forced way. If I went to a large event I would be disappointed for my children if there were no other families. But as long as there were a few that would be fine. 

However that is the problem and that is where, for me at least it gets confused. We should not consider quotas and worry and worry about numbers. Why, because we should expect large events and clubs to naturally have a mix of people. We should not have to worry that we will turn up and find only single men, no children, no women, no couples. But sadly that is a worry, and that worry is being made worse by the segregation. Families are too few and far between, and that is sad. There is no guarantee that you will find other children for your children to connect with on a naturist camping holiday and it shouldn't be that way. Go on any other camping holiday and there will be families. There is no guarantee that you will not be the only woman at a naturist swim, and that is equally sad. But also off putting, the concern replaces the fact and so families or women may simply give up without looking. The fact that we have swim meets, skinny dip events, charity walks, and even large organised camps that do not allow children is only making the likelihood of finding fellow families at clubs and other events seem less likely. We have noticed a drop of families on UK beaches since our return to England. The message naturism is presenting is that families are either not safe or not wanted.  

Similarly women only events are encouraging women to stay away from men and heightening the concern that men are not to be trusted, and also creating the idea that women are not joining naturism. Is suggesting to women that they will be in a minority, that they are better of segregated otherwise they will be amongst men that cannot be trusted really the best way to encourage more women into naturism or the obvious way of discouraging them?

I cannot shake the idea that clubs need to ensure that they do not get overrun by any one group, I wouldn't want to be the only white, English, male, middle aged, heterosexual in a group of 200 women, LGBT, Asian, French or Chinese people. Not because I have anything against spending time with people who are different than me, but because to be outnumbered on such a level could be very lonely or intimidating. Just as I would want to be the only human in a field of 200 cows, or the only vegetarian at a 200 strong carnivore convention, or the only sober person among 200 drunks. or the only chubby person in a room of 200 weight lifters.  We have a natural want to be among people we feel are a little like us, even if it is just 10%. That is a real fear in naturism now. Will I be he only woman? Will I be the only child? And we are not doing enough to ensure there are children, and we are making errors in judgement to trying to encourage women, we are upsetting and alienating single men, we are encouraging younger people at the expense of genuine naturism and we are worrying about LGBT numbers. But lets face it there are no shortage of LGBT enjoying naturism. We really don't need to worry as it seems to me that a higher ratio of LGBT are finding naturism than in other other groups. If only 3% of the UK are LGBT there are certainly more than 3% of naturists that are LGBT at events and beaches. I certainly don't mind that but it does seem ironic that we should worry about ensuring the LGBT community is represented when they already clearly are, but families are clearly not. We need to look at why and we need to make changes. The LGBT are finding their way into naturism so is it that event organisers are seeing that and wanting to ensure that they book tickets and spend? Naturism should not worry about tickets but about naturism itself. We are allowing families to not find naturism, we are allowing women and couples to not find naturism, we are making single men feel hated, and we are failing to present naturism as universally acceptable and equal to all. 

We shouldn't be looking at fulfilling quotas like a pie chart, but we should be looking for answers as to why we are failing big portions of society. Why we continue to worry about needing to limit single men, why families continue to worry about being the only family and why we continue to encourage women by offering them naturism without children, partners and men?

The thing we do not really understand is that at some point in the past, this subject of segregation was raised, and it was agreed upon on mass as being a good idea. Did no one stand up and point out the hypocrisy of the idea, and speak out about how these kinds of rules are both discrimination and also exclusionary.

We assume this was all done in the name of protecting naturism, but how can turning away naturists in any way be considered to be good for naturism? That is like telling members of the VW club, you can join as long as your VW is not Yellow, it is utter stupidity. If rules such as these were to happen in the textile world, there would be an uproar, and yet within naturism this is quite acceptable.

In regard to single men, as we have written many times before, and Dale expresses very well, this rule basically states that no man is to be trusted, and all men are potential sex offenders, under UK law that is actually illegal, and yet it is happening. We know a good few single males, they join us at our monthly swim, (Which does not have quotas) and we see how upset they get when they know they cannot attend the local clubs. They are frustrated as they pay a lot of money into the national organisation, which then uses it to promote women only events and age segregated events. The national organisations are happy to take single men’s cash, but they prop up these discriminatory rules and do nothing to help what actually is their biggest demographic of members, it is shameful behaviour.

Another important aspect of this, we feel is that clubs are actually missing out on their biggest asset, which is the single male. The biggest overhead for any club, is maintenance, which is why there is a program in most clubs where members do so many hours within the club to keep it orderly. Family commitments within members lives can be a barrier to this, we know one male who felt he had to leave the club, because juggling Marriage, kids and a job took up so much of his time that he was not able to give enough working hours a month, and was reprimanded by the club for it.

Single men are free, they have time on their hands, and as we have seen for ourselves, they are often the first to volunteer to muck in and help out. Clubs are wasting a vital resource that would in effect actually help them maintain the club’s image and condition, and help keep down costs.

What we find incredulous, is that currently, clubs have quota's, and yet they argue they lack female members, so the quota method does not improve and increase females, hence national organisations are working hard to promote women in naturism. It appears to us, with or without men, women are not exactly rushing to join a local naturist venue. Does this mean single men are suffering exclusion needlessly?

We have encountered conversations within naturism, where clubs and events are struggling due to falling numbers, recently in H&E there was a survey of clubs and events that was expressing concern that they were unable to attract visitors, and these are the clubs that cry help, whilst excluding families and singles males in order to maintain was is the status quo of current naturism.

It is old age thinking, lets call it out for what it is, in a world that has modernised and moved out of the dark ages and into a brighter time. We now live in a time where naturism should not be hiding behind high walls and tall hedges, and be more open with the public about a lifestyle that has attracted millions of people within the UK and, and even greater numbers across the rest of the world.

Segregation and quotas is the wrong message to give to an uneducated public, who are already suspicious of naturism due to the hyper sexualisation of all media on the planet, it very clearly shows that there is something not to be trusted inside of naturism. We cannot deny, at the moment it feels at times like the blind are leading the blind, and it needs to change.  

This post was edited by Robin and Rin RnR at June 5, 2024 11:25 PM BST

The attitudes of those ' at the helm' of naturism continue to leave me utterly bewildered. A while back I enquired why a ticketed naturist event was publicised as over 18 only. I was told that it was a condition imposed by the site owners and that was that. It seems that those in control are so desparate to retain the number of events they they run , that they will accept conditions like this without question. There is a fine line between maintaining and stagnating !

As time passes it seems to be easier for those that choose to make money from selling their image online to do so . There appears to be a growing acceptance that taking your clothes off for money is not the taboo choice of making a living it once was. The internet is full of ' content creators ' , some of which use the term 'naturist' in their blurb. Obviously , what they are doing has little to do with the naturists idea of what the word means , maybe they just can't spell sexual ! 

Surely it is the job of organised naturism , be that national bodies or clubs , to further the cause of true naturism and provide an alternative to the ' only fans ' and ' adults only' mindset. This cannot be done by creating divisions within naturism itself . 

This post was edited by Matt 1969 at May 21, 2024 6:34 PM BST

Well said Matt. As I think I mentioned above if a third party venue says no to children then the naturist organiser should say no to the third party venue. It is up to naturism to take control and ensure it is understood, and if a venue says it is wrong to have children in a naturist setting then naturism needs to put them right on this and not accept defeat and allow the idea of naturism being non-family friendly to propagate. Which event/venue was it? 

EveryBody for example is at the same location as NKD so that venue has certainly not told them they cannot have children. Nudefest strictly speaking does allow children but it is set up that it falls during term time. We were invited in Nudefest many years back and couldn't make it due to being in Spain, but we did worry that our children would be the only children there. NKD which is supposed to be for families even overlaps into school time most years which is simply insane. Maybe that is one of the reasons that families are still a minority in what is the only nationally organised event aimed at families. 

It does seem to me that currently naturism in the UK is only being marketed at young adults but not even all young adults, but young adults with a certain look and attitude. There is certainly no harm in encouraging these youngsters into naturism but whenever anything appears too limited in it market appeal it is not a good thing. Even the average young adult could feel that UK naturism would not be right for them as it is displayed as almost having a uniform (despite the nudity). If they only showed oaps in these festival images and short videos it would be the same, or only men, or only women, or only families, or only really tall people. UK naturism seems so intent in attraction a certainly section of our young culture that there is a danger of confusing everyone else. I want to see naturism advertised with reality and for naturism to stop attempting to have a certain look that obviously ticks some sort of trend in the minds of naturist organisers. How can we expect the full spectrum of people to embrace naturism when that spectrum is not invited in by example?  Step inside the reality of naturism in the UK and the majority appear to be past retirement age, glance through the promotions and they are all young adults with ear stretchers, piercings, tattoos and dreadlocks. Nothing wrong with that as long as we don't pretend that the oaps don't exist, and what about presenting youngsters who don't have facial piercings, what about middle aged couples, what about families, what about the whole variety of people in naturism, people like Matt1969, Robin and Rin, Dale, myself and anyone else that takes part in this topic or others on ANW. Real naturism is not about presenting it as a life choice for a very specific group but as a life choice for everyone. It is very clear that EveryBody is totally incorrect in its choice of name, misleading in fact and damaging to the future of naturism. You do not have to be a lexicographer to see the irony that EveryBody rejects huge chunks of our society. I would be much less offended by this 18-30 style party event if it didn't use this name. The insult to families and older naturists is simply being rubbed in with a callous approach that frankly is shocking. It isn't "EveryBody", but it is "EveryBody that Counts." Sadly it underlines the idea that naturism is moving away from families. The subconscious message here is the if we consider what naturism considers as their complete community it doesn't include people under 18, and therefore also rejects the 60% of the UK who live and therefore holiday with people under 18. By the time you also reject the older people who are not considered as part of the all encompassing word it leaves very few people behind. Around 25% of people in the UK are over 50. Which suggests that the idea behind who counts as important enough to be "everybody" is actually geared at 15% of our population! 

Sadly I think what Matt writes here is a lot to do with it: "There appears to be a growing acceptance that taking your clothes off for money is not the taboo choice of making a living it once was. The internet is full of ' content creators ' , some of which use the term 'naturist' in their blurb. Obviously , what they are doing has little to do with the naturists idea of what the word means , maybe they just can't spell sexual!" Could it be that naturism is confusing what naturism is itself? Could it be that naturism wants to attract the people who see this growth as rather good thing to join naturism? Could it be that naturism doesn't know how to combat this trendy movement towards sexualised sharing and so is happy to allow families to be collateral damage simply to fit in? Could it be that the money that is being made through online stripping is actually seen as rather attractive by naturists? Could it be that the online strippers actually appear to attractive a market to not cash in on and ask to join naturism? Could it be that the edges are becoming so blurred that in fact now it seems confusing to stand proud? As one ANW member wrote earlier this week naturist clubs are making mistakes with innuendo and sex toys! Adult naturist events are crossing the line, and I witnessed incorrect behaviour throughout my time at the "family friendly" NKD, not sexual activity but extreme drunken behaviour, sexual talk in front of children, flirtatious behaviour and angry behaviour. It may have been from a small percentage of the guests but when you pick this up and place it into an event like EveryBody with no older naturists and no families where would the line be drawn? Where would non-naturists who do not have genuine experience of naturism consider that line is drawn? 

Of course if naturism stood by the idea that naturism actually was for everyone then these confusions would be easier to confront. Adult only events that blur edges wouldn't exist, confusion that naturism isn't for children couldn't exist, the whole spectrum of society would feel naturism was promoted towards them, the night time parties that encourage some poor judgement would be reigned in by a broader range of people being involved,  

As I have said above, I do get that clubs do not want to see their memberships taken over by men and that fear can be seen as a reality. At no point do I feel it is right to act like men should not be trusted, but this lack of attempting to encourage a broad spectrum into naturism is maybe a big part of what could be the cause of this. Clubs would not fear ending up with only male members if we were doing a proper job of encouraging couples and families into naturism, Youngsters who may go to party events are unlikely to want to join a club and take a permanent presence in one place until they are ready to become a couple or family and feel more settled. So where does that leave the clubs? Naturism is not encouraging couples and families into the fold, so how will the clubs then find the couples and families to become members. It is hardly surprising that there seems to be a lot of single male naturist looking for a club to join. It may be that actually the amount of single men is not as huge a number as we imagine, it may just be that there appears to be a lot because there are so few couples and families finding there way to clubs, because naturism is not promoting to couples and families.

Talking about single men, RnR raise really valid points about single men bringing skills, energy and time to a club, and that should not be ignored. I think the big problem really is not that too many single men want to join clubs but that not enough couples and families want to join them. As I mentioned previously we need to look at what we are doing wrong as a lifestyle that we do not have enough families and couples looking to joining clubs to address the imbalance. Not about fulfilling quotas but about fulfilling our duty to naturism. It is not the single man's fault that he wants to be a naturist and families and couples don't. That is the big problem that naturism faces. Let's not blame the single men for this problem, lets blame naturism and how it is understood and promoted. Ironically the idea that single men are not to be trusted is going to be part of what puts off couples and families. But once again this is not the single man's fault, this is again naturisms fault. Naturism should never have allowed that perception to exist. 

I wonder if anyway has any quotes they could use from club and national bodies that state that they limit single men because of a lack of trust. It would be interesting to see if this foolish attitude towards men is actually ever officially printed or if it is assumed because of the single men limitation rules. Either way this attitude needs addressing as until naturism turns around and says that they do trust single men and that women and families do not need to fear them then we are going to find it hard to move naturism in the right direction and see it properly understood and accepted. 

Anna and I feel that there should be some very clear statements and policies created about naturism that are universally recognised and adhered to by all national bodies and all genuine clubs. We need to go beyond the words of the 1974 definition and actually draw up a longer definition of basic ideas and rules that clarify the misinterpretations and also address the internet. 1974 is now a long time ago and the world has changed dramatically since then. Cap D'agde where the definition was created in 1974 is a sad example of how bad things can go wrong if we don't stand our grounds and fight for naturism and nip and blurring of edges in the bud. Cap didn't happen over night, it disintegrated over time, that disintegration is now spreading like a weed in the garden of naturism. Our national bodies need to be part of helping to pull out the weeds and not picking the weeds and making daisy chains out of them while shaking the seed heads to allow them to spread quicker and more prolifically.