We have been reading more and more about AI over the last few days and the more I read the more I see it as damaging and dangerous and something we need to control and be very wary of. Not just on ANW but also on the internet as a whole and in life. 

I cannot help but wonder why we want to encourage something so unnatural into ANW and naturism when we have encouraged the understanding of naturism being natural and based on our nature as a big part of accepting and trusting naturism. 

Surely, we pride ourselves that naturism (and ANW) is about harnessing nature and we feel that using an artificial unnatural intelligence to attempt to show this is bothy ironic and dangerous. We want to encourage people to stay real and share real naturism and not have to resort to fantasy. Naturism is good enough with out it. If people do not wish to share images then that is obviously their choice, but sharing made up images seems wrong for naturism. If you look at the AI images they also give over the wrong idea of the human body, media friendly, advertising safe bodies of Barbie and Ken look-a-likes. The use of such perfection may actually make people who are not perfect (all of us) fearful of sharing their imperfections and also confused as to how naturism views those imperfections as we appear to show our real wants through the fantastical images of AI. Personally as an overweight woman heading towards her 50's I find the attention these idealised images get insulting and undermining. The images are falling into the trap that so many of us have been complaining about in the forum and elsewhere for years. That we are sold an idea of perfection, we are sold an idea of a need to fit the mold. The use of these images in my eyes is buying into that sexualisation of the human body that we have been fighting on ANW, and I think this needs careful consideration. 

These images are not just mimicking art they are mimicking a mental attitude towards the human body that does not fit naturism. 

I think it is very interesting to see Marc's calendar of AI images build but I see it more as an experiment into considering AI and one thing I would not want to see is the Albums area being flooded with similar images. I feel the albums area should be about photographs. Photographs taken by members of ANW. Photographs of real people.  

Another ANW member added some naturist AI images yesterday and we removed them and asked him to hang fire until a decision was made about AI. He was super understanding. The images however did add another thought to this topic that I would like to share here. The first image had a child to the left front holding hands with no-one, and a child centre back with two octopus arms growing out of one shoulder, and a child sitting in the middle with no legs.  The second image had a woman (with a skeleton hand) stirring a man's back like a bowl of soup, her face was like something out of a horror film (a huge beak like nose and teeth missing), the man has a small hand on his neck that belonged to no one, and another hand blended into his left shoulder, the lady has lost part of her waist and her left arm seems to be stolen from the man with a blurring of their shoulders together. The boy seemed to be burying his hand into the mans back like he was about to rip out his kidney. These AI images are a mix of perfect people who are corrupted by the programme. Odo or Data attempting to be human but failing to ever quite fit the bill. Naturism is all about humanity. 

We ask people to share images of themselves on ANW, some are not sure about doing that, partly they fear their images being taken and resurfacing else where. These AI images actual encourage that fear, but they also could serve as a handy replacement. I don't want to share images of myself, I cannot share images of strangers, so I will share images of fantasies instead.

How do we tell the difference between naturism and porn. If you removed the sexual content and intent, maybe the answer is the difference between real and fantasy. A naturist image is grounded in the everyday, the real, the genuine. The AI image is lifted to the realms of a dream, an ideal, a wouldn't it be wonderful if... but isn't the dream rather dangerous? Does it create a thirst, a drive, a wish fulfilment? Steve and I and others head to the beach, or a forest, or into our gardens - but we can never live up to the expectations of the AI image, we can never fulfil the wants driven by the AI images. And we should never try. We are real people enjoying naturism, grounded in our acceptance of ourselves and others. Do we want to see how far from the dream we actually are? Do we want to start fantasising about what an ideal world naturism could be if it wasn't for all the naturists that enjoy it? 

I have heard so many people say - "I could not undress in front of others because I am not good enough." I have also heard people say things like, "I couldn't go to a naturist beach because the people on the beaches are all old and overweight." "Why are there no attractive young people in naturism?" is another common question I have heard and read. These AI images feed this failing within our society, and in doing so they also make naturists seem like inside that is all they want. "I know why you go to a naturist beach, it is to see attractive young things naked."

I can understand, as Steve mentions above that a fantasy AI image may be quite good at accompanying a piece of writing about naturism where no real photograph can be easily found, but this would have a point, and not just shared for the sake of the image alone. Marc's calendar I think is a fascinating experiment and I look forward to seeing the rest of the entries, but for me it is underlining the idea that there needs to be a good reason for the use of these images. And I would love to hear more people's points of view as to what those reasons should be, and how if at all, AI images should be used. 

Consider the idea that when Steve and I first put ourselves out there on the internet as naturists that we placed ourselves in a vulnerable situation. It has not been a completely pleasant experience. Many parts of our bodies have been ridiculed and insulted. We have had death threat, threats of rape, pestering behaviour, nasty things aimed at our children etc. But in doing so we have aimed at attempting to allow people to see a reality in naturism, and we have met and spoke to some amazing people. Do these AI images not simply steal that away from us, and anyone else placing themselves on the line for naturism? What is the point of creating a reality around naturism when the fantasy is so easily produced and can so easily undermine real naturism, what it stands for and any lessons that can be taught? 

If AI is stealing art from artists, then is it not also stealing nudity from naturists? Is there not also the idea that it is stealing the thought process from the writer? Why consider the need to understand your own feelings, when AI can tell you what the answers should be? Why should we bother with a survey on naturism when AI can tell us what people really think? But it doesn't does it? It tells us what it assumes people think through the search it sends out. But are your thoughts out their to be harvested? Do your thoughts not count? We live in a world where political decisions are not voted on by what politicians say but what people on social media say. We live in a world where "influencers" guide us into knowing what is cool and what is not, they teach us to aspire to them, simply because they have told us that they know best. With AI we are in danger of not just rejecting the average person, but also the self styled influencers and relying entirely on a "mean" of information, and that "mean" will be influenced over and over again by AI until eventually we no longer have interest in the thought process of humans. I know I need to do this because the computer told me. I know that I cannot be a naturist because the computer has shown me that middle aged, chubby women are not part of naturism. If youngsters of yesterday were (badly) educated about the human through images of porn, what about the youngsters of tomorrow? Through the media and advertising friendly imagery of AI. If we are unable to reject those ideas as naturists, then what chance does the average person have? They will be heading to the surgery with an AI image and saying - turn me into that please. The surgeon could then give them an option - "in real life with a knife or just through your profiles on the internet."

AI is the opposite of naturism - naturism is real and AI is fake - is there really a future for AI on ANW - and if there is what does that mean to us and to the site? Please share your further thoughts on this topic. If you think AI is brilliant and fantastic for naturism and ANW please tell us why. And if you don't then please speak out too.

I'll be very brief, because I have already expressed my thoughts above. Very happy to see what you have written here, Anna. For my part, these AI images are annoying and creepy, NO MATTER HOW 'GOOD' THEY ARE, and every time someone posts one on the main feed I 'hide' it so I don't have to look at it. I've also considered blocking one or two folks and I don't really want to do that; but I'm all for banning the use of this new monster from ANW.
AI is not art. It steals from artists. There is no heart, no talent, no real thought involved.

We can remember a few years ago when one of our children asked us a question about the meaning of a word, and we pointed them to a dictionary. We told them "look it up, and find the answers yourself, thinking is a positive process, and we can assure you, that will learn the answer and discover more," their response, "I will Google it."

AI is starting to feel like the 2023 equivalent, and within that is the same danger as Googling it. There is no doubt it is easy to take the easiest route, but in doing so, we lose the ability to think for ourselves, and we feel that is one of the biggest dangers of both Google and AI, and currently, they have been joined together as AI runs most of google.

The biggest benefit of ANW is the very fact, as Anna so eloquently points out, is it is real. The posts, blogs, stories we tell, memories we share and the pictures we post are real genuine aspects of the lives of living human beings, they are in essence, lived events that inspire us to consider our own lives, and our own feelings about naturism.

Rob is a watcher of many things, he consumes media, blogs and articles at a steady rate, as he has a very real interest in the lives of all things, and he writes on many levels for many things, one of which is his large contribution to the blog we put out, where he does 80% of the written content. Currently, one of his pet hates is how the media is corrupting the truth and presenting a very misleading view of the world, especially on body positivity and nakedness, he watches how governments have ignored public opinion in favour of passing legislation that only benefits the large corporations, and super rich peoples agendas, and as we have spoken of many times alone together, he highlights how the world is being sculpted to a narrative that is not beneficial for the average human being, and liberty is being threatened.

With a media that is becoming more and more complicit with governments and big business, and censorship of certain voices being urged right across the board, as we have seen with governments espeically in the UK and USA that have manipulated truths and forced social media to censor certain narratives, as large corporations invest heavily in AI, one has to ask a question:

If governments and business media can dominate the narrative, and they are investing the most in AI, how long will it be, before they tell AI to start censoring the world? It is not a conspiracy, it has been proven to happen, as already there is evidence that AI has been programmed to think a certain political way. Social Media mainly bans or heavily censors naturism, as they control what we can post on our profiles, they say the human body is not to be seen, and it has had an impact on society, and on all of us. How long will it be, before AI is as narrow minded as Facebook, or Instagram? 

Some time back, a few members here asked AI about Naturism, and they posted the results. AI obviously scanned through everything written about naturism and provided an answer based on the general consensus of the many blogs and articles written by naturists. The article was a positive one, it showed naturism is a very good light, and was actually very informative, but it is here there does lie an unseen danger which must be considered, because already in the last two years we have seen a silent crack down on nudity increase. One well know Austrailian blogger/vlogger had her whole You Tube removed without warning, AI flagged it as inappropriate, and after years of posting, suddenly it was gone. The same is happening on other platforms, and profiles simply dissapaer, all flagged by AI.

We ask the question, what will AI write about Naturism, when all the positive blogs, articles and posts have been flagged by AI? Will AI then write a different narrative, when you ask it for a picture, will it tell you it is an indecent question and dissable your computer? 

We live in a world that is slowly being seduced by technology, and not all of it is good for us, we are told it is by those who pull the strings of power, but as we have seen, it is not always a thing of benefit to us as free thinking individuals with a love a pure naked freedom. 

We are happy to see this thread here, we have been actively involved with it, because we do feel that like Anna has stated, we do have something to lose by not being real about what we want to see as naturists. ANW has become one of the most positive sites for naturism on the net, and it is AI free, which is maybe why it is so open and considerate of the views of everyone. None of us know what the future may hold, but what we do know is, running towards a promise of Utopia, has always been a dream, and currently AI is seen as a Utopian ideal, but is it really?

We feel that ANW is right to tip toe, and walk slolwy as it asses the benefits, and the dangers of AI. We too are watching Marc's experiement with AI, it is a an interesting process and facinating debate, and we are looking forward to seeing the outcome.

Because I'm currently trying to learn the nuances of Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop (not an easy task) I've had an interest in this topic.  Also, because I'm an IT "geek" the topic is one I watch.

When Marc published the site he was using (Mages.space) I figured I'd at least look at it.  I've come away with the opinion that making good AI images is not all that easy.  Yes, I got it to make images but not of the quality of Marc's.  So, until I see more, I'm of the opinion that AI in this area is perhaps a logical progression.  Can it be abused? Sure, but then so can digital photography.  The real danger I see is in its ability to piece together text into a reasonably coherent document.  I see more damage there than in the imaging area.  When you look at what can be done right now in Photoshop can be pretty scary.  Here is a case in point.  I posted a second photo of me doing karaoke to my Indoor Activities album earlier today.  I was able to only do that AFTER I removed two clothed young staffers who were acting as my "backup" during that performance.  Perhaps a trained eye can spot the work but at the size of the photo in the album I don't think any of you will know where they were and what was removed.

AI was initially popularized more than 30 years ago when Commander Data appeared on Star Trek - The Next Generation.  Will a Commander Data ever be possible?  I will say not in any of our lifetimes, if ever.

I think the real question is whether or not AI generated images (naturist or not) have a place on ANW.  If they are put there as one person's effort (and note that for now I'm not calling it "art") I think there is a place.  Were they to be presented as reality, now that is a different matter.  Personally, I find Marc's efforts to be an interesting compilation of previously stored shapes (the figures) and backgrounds.  Marc just had a fair amount of help in rendering the image.  Marc was still the impetus for the creation.

I'll leave it to Steve and Anna to decide how AI images are to be treated.  As for me, any images I post will be this body that I've had since birth.

I just returned from a walk, during which I was listening to our local talk radio station. There is a very good tech lady named, Kim Kamando, who has a daily program where she talks about the latest tech and helps people with tech problems.

Today, she opened her program saying that 2024 is going to be "the year of the AI Bartender."  She said it is a tool that has been developed and has garnered a great deal of interest from bar and club owners. Two companies are already competing with each other for development and marketing. The AI Bartender will take your order, mix the drink perfectly and have it in front of you within seconds; and no need for tipping or paying a bartender salary.

She ended, saying that AI is going to eventually take over the world, and it's starting with the bars.

As I walked on in reflection, it occurred to me that with the advent of AI Bartender, there will no longer be anyone there to explain to you why your wife left and why your boss doesn't understand you.  

Or, to say in a gruff voice, "Dat duz it! Out you two pixies go, through the door or out the window!"