In the topic https://www.anaturistworld.com/forums/topic/173/pixelation-obscuring-cropping-hiding the idea of desexualising the naked body came up and I thought it may be an interest topic to discuss in its own right in the sensible manner the ANW Forum is so good at. I wrote in the topic linked above "I think often there is an incorrect belief that naturists do actual desexualise themselves. I think based on the idea that we often say naturism isn't about sex, but also on the idea that by spending so much time around the naked body we must become bored by it."

Vitor original wrote "One thing that I've been thinking a lot lately is the idea of desexualizing the naked body. It can't be done. It's the denial of something which has a physical and mechanical component. What can and should be done is desexualizing the naked body in context. It's not necessarily sexual in the shower and most certainly it isn't sexual in those horrid concentration camps. Therefore, the naked body can also be a dehumanizing thing. As it's context that matters, we ought to be concerned about promoting a good context for nakedness: a safe, non judgmental, everybody who behaves is welcomed environment, not great open ideas that are more philosophical than practical. That's what I mean when I say naturism promotes itself. "

I think it would be an interesting topic to explore. 

In naturism - how have we successfully reached a balance where we still find the human body attractive, are still interested in that natural want to find a partner, have a relationship and possibly continue the human race - and yet recognise that being socially naked with others is a family friendly, non-sexual thing? 

In general society how do we pass on that balance?  While society still continues sexualising the human body by default how can it accept that naturism is non-sexual and how can it turn around the layers of abuse that linger in the crevices of all parts of society? Minority behaviour causing majority fear. 

There is in deed nothing sexual about visits to the doctor, hostile/enforced nudity such as in concentration camps and the average bath/shower/changing room situation - yet society does not consider such things when considering the natural nudity of naturism. Naturism too often gets linked with the pornographic attitude towards nudity that used to be supplied from under the counter or from the top shelf - but now seems an ever growing aspect of everyday internet life.

Maybe it is the constant barrage of sexualised nudity on the internet that will ironically actually lead to a numbing of the human mind from finding the human body attractive and sexual. We may never get bored of how beautiful it is to see the human body in all its varieties in a natural naturist setting, but to me the extreme levels of sexual behaviour that bombards us by simply checking out who to block on Twitter or on a million other websites leaves me feeling bored and repulsed by the way the human body is displayed. Could people growing up with this actually end up seeing connecting with fellow humans as a robotic and distasteful act that paints a nasty picture in the mind. Familiarity indeed breeding contempt. 

To me naturism is a perfect answer. Yes humans are attracted to each other and yes we will always want to be, yet moments of intimacy remain special and personal and private. The human body remains beautiful in its own right and never boring - after all isn't that the same with all nature. Who ever tires of watching the sea move, looking across hills, forests and mountains, the wonders of wildlife from bees to whales. The sun set and rise, a simple pure blue sky. These things entice us through their natural beauty - just as the human body should. There is horror, death and decay. Natural history programmes will place us on the side of a lion before it tears apart a beautiful gazelle so we can understand the need for the kill. So we learn to accept that side - it is in context with the balance of nature. Humanity uses sexuality in a horrific way without first building empathy. The porn industry, the sexual sharing internet and even advertisers give the human body an abused quality - we see the horror but it has no purpose. We build guilt around all levels of nudity - encouraged to do so by our parents, schools and society and then by seeing the sexualisation via strip clubs, media, internet and more. Society tells us to not look, but we naturally want to look, it is natural instinct and as soon as we break the rules we are guilty of a crime. If we are told we are wrong to like to be naked and see others naked then our basic core considers itself as bad  and it is only a small leap for some to turn that guilt and taboo attitude towards levels of misuse that at worse can lead to abuse of others, the bigger the taboo the more the appeal. After all we are always told bigger is better. Bigger wealth, bigger car, bigger muscles, bigger breasts, bigger pool, bigger success - so our failings to - we remembers the bigger war crimes, the bigger serial killers, the bigger assassinations, the bigger atrocities, the bigger abusers. Women send love letters and proposals of marriage to famous rapists!

Naturism may have the perfect answer - reclaiming the natural side of nudity - but how do we get there? How do we combat a society who considers nudity such a sin and such a turn on. Take for example the female breast. We can offer topless equality and we can say that women should be able to breast feed their children, but while the media continues to place the breast as a sexual trophy and men continue to look for that reward how can a woman feel comfortable exposing her breast on an equal level knowing that she is going to be an object of unwanted attention. How can equality ever be found when men are desperate to see them and many women are equally obsessed seeking the skimpiest of bikinis, enhancing bras and cosmetic improvements?

How do we as naturists deal with this catch 22 situation? We will only find natural nudity widely accepted when the naked body is not an object of lust and titillation but we can only stop the naked human body from being an object of lust and titillation by having natural nudity widely accepted. 

Do share your thoughts on this and other matters on this topic.

I agree it depends on the context, as well as on the behavior. But, it depends heavily on the eyes of the beholder. Hence, the judgment ones put on a naked body is tainted by his or her own biaises. Let's take three common situations:
1. A couple at a nudist beach help each other to put some sunscreen on their back. For most people, it's a situation that has no connotation but just two people helping each other. It happens to be at a nudist beach, and they happen to be naked. For some however, it will a sexually, at least sensually, loaded situation that may lead to erotic feeling.
2. A woman poses for her husband or friend who take picture of her while naked at the nudist beach. Another situation that may seem to many quite common but to other very sensually loaded.
3. Still at the nudist beach, a bunch of friends playing with each other, running after each other, laughing... Nothing mesmerizing here, but a possible reminder of a sexually loaded Baywatch.

Those situations are totally innocuous, but can be seen as highly erotic, provoking sexual arousal with some people.

On the opposite, imagine a couple carressing each other at a nude beach, including intimate carresses. This is an erotic situation of blatant exhibitionism that will give a sexual tainting to a naturist setting. This is, for instance, what is happening in Cap d'Agde that has put the naturist village on the libertine map. However, a couple just kissing each other expressing their love without any show of sexual behavior may be seen as gross or normal, depending on who's watching.

Where to draw the line? IMHO, it's not as fine as it seems, based on three principles I do my best to adhere to:
1- A naked body is not inherently sexual.
2- A naked body becomes sexual as soon as sexual act is performed: masturbation, intimate carress, sexual act.
3- Everybody should be able to see a naked body, but only consenting adults should be able to see sexual naked bodies, hence no sexually visible behaviors should be allowed in public spaces.

I may be over simplifying things here, but I believe in simplicity.

Steve and Marc, both of you have raised points we were going to make, so we will try not to repeat those as we agree with them. Okay, so one of us has worked with people who have had sexual issues around dsyfunction. Most people believe dsyfunction is simply the problem of not being able to be phsyically aroused, it is not, it is very much related to many issues, and a lot of the time those issues are cognitive. Simply put, people have a dysfuntional mindset around issues of sex.

That is an important point to keep in mind, the second, is attraction, this is as both of you have stated a personal mindset. When we are attracted to another we give off signals, they are behavioural cues, that change facial expression, attention given, and even are playful. Good well known examples would be playing with hair, gently touching the person you are attracted to, licking lips and or eye contact on certain regions. These will happen unconciously whether people are dressed or undressed, and it is important to note that.

Thirdly is context, we would suggest, that people entering into a naturist situation, are aware of the rules, just like any footballer, they know going onto the feild, that if they touch the ball with their hand it is a foul, and if they are aggressive, they will get the red card and sent of the feild of play. Entering a a situation of social nudity, we all know the rules, and act within them, expressing an acceptable behaviour, which in this case, is none sexual.

The simple psychology of attraction or sexual thoughts and feelings is no different in a socially naked, or none socially naked situation. If two people really do hit it off and want to be sexually involved, in both situations they will leave the situation to be private. We would argue, most people do not want to be sexually involved in public view, there are exceptions to the rule, case in point the libertine faction, and they are a whole different level of psycological behaviour, and as pointed out, a part of which is exhibitionism.

Currently we live in a society that has weaponised sex to sell, shock, and titilate, but most importantly, and we should never underestimate it, is the power to shame. Rob understands the power of shame in great depth, for twenty five years, he was engaged unravelling it working with others. Is society dysfunctional? Hell yes, and it has been mouled that way deliberately. Are there people who when confronted by nudity, will always make a sexual thing? Yes.

The simple truth is, those who see a sexual conotation to nudity, will always do so, it is actually one of the things that makes Rob laugh, when you get some moral bystander ranting and raging about how disgraceful it is, as simply put, they have the weakest midset and will power, those people are inccapable of seperating the two. There is a long list of reasons for this, of which free porn, and social media puritanical rules play a big part, but there are also many other contribution factors within society, especially on a pyschological and emotional level.

One of the biggest aspects of this is the fact, that if you were to do a poll, you would find when asked, most people do not really think about or have a problem with public nudity. Ask them if they would like to try it, and watch the socially conditioned rules kick in, and they will tell you they could never do it, but we would argue they would love to try it, but they hold that same fear as everyone else, which as stated above, is the most powerful. Fear of shame. 

Sexual attraction and Nudity have no bearing on each other, if you are attracted, it will exhibit in your behaviour, dressed or otherwise, and if you are not, it shows. It is behavoural, Voyeurs will always look, Ehibitionist will always perform, and flirts will always flirt regardless of clothing or not.

Understanding that, and taking into account and understanding that the rules apply, people within a naturist situation will act accordingly, and the very same way they would at a dressed gathering. People with issues will stand out, and usually be removed.

Thanks to Marc and RnR for these thoughts. I too like the idea of simplicity and my own personal compass for judging what is OK and isn't is that if I would do it in front of my parents or my children then it is OK. I would kiss, hold hands, hug and rub sun cream on Anna in front of my parents and my children so why not anyone else. The other is would I do it if a was dressed. Apart from rubbing sun cream which would be terrible to remove from clothes again the answer is yes. Likewise we would run about and be silly, we would grab each other and maybe push each other other into the sea, I have on various occasions given Anna a sand massage on the beach and the boys have always been running about us or sitting chatting with us and it has always felt totally natural and very safe. 

But there has to be limits to behaviour and isn't that the trick both dressed and naked too. No matter how connected we become in dressed and naked situations we remain detached from the sexual. Holding hands is lovely but innocent, kissing in front of our children, or on a beach, or anywhere in public stays naturally within a certain territory. I remember on the A Nat Family Forum we had someone talking about the way they danced in naturist situations wasn't suitable for children - I think I argued back that if it wasn't suitable for children to see then why is it suitable for others to see. 

There is the confusion that some people will argue that parents and children shouldn't see you naked in the first place. But we have to remove that idea by only considering it is behaviour that counts and not a state of dress - but choice of clothes can also reflect behaviour such as wearing clothes that are created purely to entice others and expose only  certain parts of the body.  

Some people do consider sexual sharing behaviour as acceptable - and some argue that it is about positive sexual growth and awareness - but I would say it is the exact opposite- being sexual adventurous and revealing in the name of naturism does not further the positive way you may feel about yourself, does not help with the sexualisation of your gender and will not help society. It encourages and does not combat porn, and is surely ultimately demeaning and damaging. Importantly as far as I am concerned it damages naturism. D'agde has not just hurt its own reputation but the reputation of a life choice and everyone involved in it.

In regard to children being exposed to nudity, it appears to us, who have researched it thoroughly, that it is actullay the most positive expperince they can have. Children know it is not sexual, even in their late teens, and it reassures them, that they can embrace their body and be at ease with it. All research done to date highlights, that children raised in a naturist environment grow up to be more balanced adults .