While I respect Steve W's views, I'm not sure that the climate in the US is as rosy as he paints it. While events like the Philadelphia WNBR (one of the largest in the world) occur regularly, one only has to look at the controversy that erupted last year in Wisconsin when a minor participated in a Madison WNBR. I myself have witnessed situations where young people were surprised and possibly upset when they saw me showering nude in a segregated sex locker room. My local YMCA has put up signage in the locker rooms asking that members be "discreet and considerate of others" when changing, in other words, do the towel dance. I will say this is ignored by older members from what I have seen.
It would be my hope that nudity would become as accepted as it is in the UK (as it's been described here) or now in Spain. Changes can occur quickly; having lived in Spain in the twilight of the Franco era (1967-68) I can tell you that nudity as it's currently allowed there did NOT occur. However, the time frame I'm referencing is 50+ years.
Will I see a marked change in my lifetime? I would like to but I know it's not going to happen in the US.
at June 9, 2024 2:57 PM BST 
Anna, you've described the other side of the coin in a very good way. There is a degree, in the U.S., of hypocrisy involving various issues. There are those who are pushing children into transgendering without parental knowledge; on the other hand there are those, as you describe, who erase any image of a child. These, to me, are manifestations of the cultural breakdown in the U.S.
I agree that it all could backfire on us naturalists. We have to be consistently ethical, wholesome, true to our standards, in a society in which some don't appreciate either value!
Jonathan, you may be right about your more pessimistic outlook for the U.S. This could go in either direction or some confusing mix of the two. My health club has a rule that children below a certain age (can't recall what that is) must be accompanied by a responsible adult in either locker room (yes, there is still two: men and women!).
Meanwhile, as you know, there is a huge controversy now in the U.S. about men who "identify" as women entering into women only facilities and sports. Most women, as a result, don't want naked men in their locker rooms. The issue there is choice, but leaders don't offer clarity on that. If a woman chooses to experience naturalism, that's a good thing (and today she has that choice). If naked men declaring themselves to be women are forced on her by woke politicians, that's a bad thing, I say.
I guess my relative optimism is based on where we are now vs. 50 years ago, but I have to agree with you that things might not be as rosy as I'd like to think.
I don't want to drag this conversation into transgendering, please for give me!
I agree Steve W we have to ensure that we are consistently ethical and true to our standards, and that is part of our Get Real campaign and the words we have shared recently on the Podcasts.
In truth we do not believe that naturism is being totally ethical and consistent. A couple of weeks back a member of ANW was complaining about the slip into adult territory in their local US club. Sex toys in a prize giving was one thing they mentioned. In the past year or so we have seen more and more events in the UK move away from allowing children - some may argue that night time drunken discos and evening shows with drag queens are not suitable for children, though others may argue if they have a place in naturism. But what about charity walks or skinny dips, why should they not include families? Or women only swims that are aimed at adult women yet fail to recognise that most women have little ones to look after - it may seem like a sexual stereotype in the 21st Century but around 80% of women in the UK have children by their 40s and why would they chose a lifestyle that seems intent on ignoring them?
To be consistent and true we have to recognise where that consistency and truth lies, and that is not in creating adult only events, we are passing these ideas into the public consciousness. Naked and Adult Only - with the prolific use of nudity for sexual kicks and decades of nudity = sex = mistreating women = idealised body should only be nude = topless bars and strip joints = the way she was dressed she was asking for it = attractive women being let into clubs free to encourage the blokes = nudity sells magazines, tv, films = buy me a coffee on Twitter and I will show you my breasts etc.
We have topless equality ion some towns now, and in many public swimming baths through Europe, but we also have males attitudes towards breasts making some women feel unsure about the reception such a thing may receive and female judgement of "is this woman a tart?" "who does she think she is?" "I should only show my breasts if they are perfect" putting others into the "no way" category. May women are pressurised by their men to not breastfeed as their breasts "are for my eyes and use only" and some women actually consider the act to be sexual with concerns that there is something pervy about letting a child feed on your nipple. No matter how much the world may change laws and acceptance, society and the attitudes it has towards nudity has many decades of past habits to deal with.
The truth I am seeing through the information and internet usage and communication our teenage and 11 year old sons are showing us is that boys and girls see no issue in sharing images of their or other peoples aroused members to each other, or other such things, one girl had an image sent across all her peers of her lying on her back putting a brush handle inside her, another recorded a classmate playing with himself in the toilets. They seem to have lost any sign of what is right and wrong with nudity, and our boys thankfully talk to us and show us these images to allow us to communicate with them about why it is wrong and why they shouldn't do it. But when these children see people sharing sex videos on Twitter and apps and know of youngsters who are profiting through Fund Me and Patreon style money raising what example are they being given? A careers advice lesson actually spoke about the huge profit to be made from being a porn star in todays world! Really is this what teens need to have suggested to them? There is an idea in modern schooling that children need to be taught everything about the world and yet the modern world also encourages stranger danger and and discourages children and adults from mixing. My niece (when she was 13) fainted in class after being shown a very graphic video of Female Genital Mutilation (Here is some UK blurb - The government statutory guidance on Relationships and Sex Education (RSE), makes it compulsory for secondary schools to teach pupils about Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) and other harmful practices, including forced marriage and honour-based abuse.) Yes we cannot hide from barbaric behaviour but when is there a need to know and what needs to be shown and what detail is needed? When my youngest son was 9 and was taught about bi-sexuality and homosexuality at school all his class mates boys and girls were all going around talking about being bisexual or gay and he was being bullied because he was saying he was neither. Eventually he made a claim that he was 9 and just not interested in sex at all. A very typical logic from him. Our oldest son has had over 2 years of bullying due to accidentally touching a girl's breasts (well the area where they were because they were covered by her jumper/shirt and bra) when he was tripped over by another boy in school. This has involved a literally mobbing at school and continue to this day with children calling him a nonce and a paedo and regularly attacking him, such is the power of the negativity and the publicity of child abuse today. We have to be so careful that gender, sexuality and abuse does not become a source of bullying, harm and ganging up against each other. When a class tries to ostracise a 9 year old child at school because he is the only one who says he has no interest in going out with someone who is the same gender as him we have to question if we are finding equality or simply another version of hating people who are different to the group. Foolishly enhanced by positive discrimination. Sadly there does seem to be an unhealthy back lash, and newspapers have been running articles on the increase of homophobia in today's youths. Naturism is pandering to this as well and turning a non-sexual life choice into a sexual arena. Should it matter what sexual orientation we are when naturism isn't about sex? As a family we have chatted to many gay men at events and beaches, does their sexuality matter at all? How can it? the circumstances place gender and sex as unimportant, but the modern world insists on sexual orientation being hugely important. No longer do we encourage people to be individuals, but instead we encourage them to take sides, wear badges and concentrate on differences. From the earliest age possible we are asking people to force themselves into making decisions about themselves when they still have such a long journey ahead of them. Why are we sexualising our young to such an extent that we actually want to desexualise them before they know what it is to feel love, attraction and human depth? Children opting both physically and emotionally to detach themselves from their gender before really starting to walk down the path of life. Is an incredibly ironic stance to take when children of the same age are being hidden from strangers in a world so fearful of abuse. We place them into a sexualised world and then worry that some perverts see them as sexual objects. Children in our boys schools don't just take on sexual labels as a way to feel important but also opt to be called "it" or to be recognised as a dog or a rabbit and the schools put them up on a pedestal, while the children who have no labels are ignored and are seen to be punished easier and more severely. If a child has a label then it seems to be a get out of jail free card for any lapses of behaviour, children without labels are literally told that the label gives them special privileges, so much for fairness and equality. We need to learn to nurture the children that need nurturing, help those children who feel they need help and protect the children that need protecting without simply drowning all of our young in floods of fear and confusion. The internet is overflowing with people claiming fake abuse for attention, people claiming sexual liberation as an excuse to charge old men to look at porn, people, todays youths and children are learning from all of this. But they are learning in a world that no longer allows children to get naked in changing rooms or have showers, in a world where Leisure centres have signs up in single gender rooms telling people not to shower naked, in a world where they are not allowed to sit on Santa's knee, or have their photo taken by their parents at the school nativity or sports day in case their parents take photos of their school mates at the same time - and do what with them!
There is such a lot of confusion out there and double standards, and the truth is children may see nothing shocking in nudity, because they have been drowning in porn for years, but they also cannot imagine nudity ever being non-sexual, as they have been force fed the idea that they are sexual objects from the moment they have been able to understand language. If my sons sent naked images of themselves to friends at school their friends would think nothing of it, but if they told their friends they went to naturist beaches with their parents then they would be seen as perverts by their friends who would also assume all the people on the beach were perverts too. The double standard between nudity be commonplace yet becoming more sexualised is worrying, and is the biggest concern we face as naturists. It is a concern that naturism is actually hiding from by try to erase the idea that children and families are involved.
In many ways the public are not offended by naturism, but I do wonder with a change in attitudes and a growth of the misuse of nudity by most of society on the internet whether people will feel the need to fake offense and then in time learn to be offended, particularly when it comes to families. We live in a world now where if some one says "I love seeing children playing happily on a beach" then they will be brandished a sexual predator by some, and so they will opt to not say it, then they will opt to not think it, and then they will opt to hate it and feel ashamed. We are shaping a society that is becoming more and more fearful, mistrusting and confused. They may learn to place an equality on nudity and accept it as common place but that equality and acceptance will be one of belief that all nudity is sexual and the world has simply entered into a libertine arena. The idea that naturism can be innocent will become a harder truth to sell, and so naturists clubs, venues and organisations will stop trying to sell it and instead sell out.
Better to exist as an adult only life style than not at all! I don't think so, I think it would be better if we all went around in boiler suits and had a complete ban on social nudity and nudity on the internet. Better naturism disappear altogether than sell out, or maybe if nudity had 2 or 3 decades of not existing at all, we may find we can start again as a world with a better and healthier, family friendly approach.
If we don't sell out, we are consistent and we work 100% true to our standards then maybe we can keep naturism above water, but if we take the easy route and allow the modern world to get inside our lifestyle and change our attitude then we do not stand a chance. Now more than ever we need naturism to stand up for traditional naturism, to Get Real and insist it is properly understood. If we are not committed then we are lost, and at the moment I am not seeing enough commitment where it counts. It has to come from national bodies, large groups and traditional clubs, it has to be seen to be voiced by all venues and displayed by all websites, it has to be part of what are shown and given as individuals, families and couples. So all of us have something to stand behind.
It has to come from the top, and everyone at the bottom needs to ensure the top knows this, we create a circle, they speak for us but we have to ensure that they understand what we want them to be saying. We need to work as a giant global unit all on the same side with the same consistent set of goals and ideals.
We have to ensure that the public is not just not offended by naturism but that they also understand it and trust it. We can do this by showing that naturism is for everyone of all ages and by detaching ourselves from the adult, sexualised nudity that humanity is becoming immune to and being daring and strong enough to say there is another way. It may be a way that places people out of their initial mental comfort zone, but once you consider it then it is actually a lot easier to accept, digest and live with: that is you don't just have to accept sexualised nudity into society to live with nudity in society.
I have just seen the mention of transgender in the post above my last one. This brings some other thoughts to mind about naturism and sexuality. In naturism we do not normally have to worry about segregation and pointing people in specific directions due to their gender. We do not have to worry about which gender see us naked, shower rooms/washrooms are often open to all and the whole question as to whether someone is a man or a woman has little relevance.
In a non-naturist world there is this problem, the question as to who should be allowed in a female or a male changing room is certainly problematic, and surely open to abuse.
So we have this utopian life choice, where it doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman, if you are gay or not, if you are 7 months, 17 or 70. Sexual orientation and gender is delightfully unimportant. If I am in a shower room and a man or a woman walks in to the block and see me showering it doesn't matter at all, as they will see me outside naked in a moment anyway. The question of whether or not the man or the woman is transgender is equally unimportant. Just as if they are 16, 18 or 21 has no relevance.
Yet naturism in an attempt to conform to modern concerns is ironically turning to segregation. Suddenly it makes a difference if you are above or below 18. Suddenly it makes a difference if you are a man or a woman. And that perfect situation of it not mattering is blown out of the water. Sorry we can only come in if you are a woman over 18. And along with it comes the loss of unity. But also the inclusion of confusion. So where does the transgender person fit into this new regime. If women are being told that they will have a safer and more confident time being naked with other women do they accept people who wish to be considered women who may not look like women, and where no the individuals who are non-binary fit into all of this. The situation is far from easy to decide on the right answer and no good answer can be found for all.
So modern naturist segregation to encourage people to trust naturism is actually rather old fashioned in modern society. As the world looks for inclusivity and an answer to where we all fit in and how we are all recognised, naturism is looking to enhancing to exclusion. What an irony! Here we are with the perfect answer. Don't worry because we can all be naked with each other no matter what gender, age or sexual orientation! And we throw it away with the hope of encouraging more women. And yet how do we even understand what women are for these events? Is it basically down to breasts and genitals? The two parts of our bodies that we are saying should not be treated as something deserving of more shame, more covering and more attention seem to be the two reasons we are using to keep men and women apart!
Is this the future of naturism? Maybe we shouldn't call them men or women only events but Penis Parties and Vagina Venues. Maybe we shouldn't call them Adult Only Events but Age of Consent Arenas of Connections.
at June 9, 2024 6:11 PM BST 